The Witherfield Dialogues, Pt.1
Readers: As I'm more than prone to doing, I'm engaged in another battle of ideas with a Hillary Clinton supporter. We'll call that person Witherfield.
We've been engaged since a rather vapid note posting a few days ago. Alack, oh alack, dear readers. They continue to think I want to change their votes, but no! That couldn't be further from the truth. Because, (a) they're few votes are not stopping the tidal wave of support. Eleven in a row to date. And (b), all I want is the proper respect for Barack that the cerebral chip implants seem to disallow and prevent. They launch these scurrilous claims, and I beat em back. I raise my pimp hand of reasoning and swipe down hard with the five fingers of truth.
I try to be fair and call it like I see it. I think she'd make a "competent" president. No less so than Biden or Richardson, or Edwards. But they chomp hard at the bit to keep from saying the same and more. Hope is cheap? It's all talk. He's not tested? Well you all, here it is. The whole dyspeptic screed for you to enjoy. Bon appetit!
Obama takes a free ride to the Oval Office - Vallejo Times Herald
http://www.timesheraldonline.com/jackbungart/ci_83...
Witherfield: Lo siento, I couldn't resist - Yes, I am fully at peace with being the lone black 20-something voting for Hillary. And before you ask...nope, I'm not interested in hope and I'm definitely not interested in uniting with the republicans. It's okay though, I have nothing but love for all of my "Obama" peeps, just not on election day! LOL
Me: Than you certainly picked your horse wisely.
This provoked a much stronger response than I initially expected.
Witherfield: I definitely picked my horse wisely. Showhorses are pretty, but I'll take a workhorse any day of the week. Hope is nice, but I need someone who will fight to improve my situation b/c the republicans ARE NOT going to unite behind either Hillary or Obama's policies. Pretending that they will is not hopeful, it's dangerous, stupid and shortsighted!
Personally, I need someone who is WILLING and ABLE to fight to defend policies that will help those who have been suffering under the current uniter's "compassionate conservativism." Washington and the republicans WILL NOT roll over and unite behind change, especially progressive change. So hope and promises of change are woefully insufficient.
Solutions may not be as cool as hope, but hope doesn't stop home foreclosures, create retirement benefits, healthcare or affordable college tuition. So, yep, I certainly picked right - I'll take a workhorse, who's a fighter, over a showhorse, dishing out pipe dreams of hope, any day of the week.
I would just like to interject here that I withheld the first blow. All of a sudden my guy is a preening debutante and I'm stupid and a threat the general well being of our country.
Me: Workhorse, eh? Allow me to quote the non-partisan research website Factcheck.org for you.
In fact, Obama sponsored more than 800 bills during his eight years as an Illinois state senator. And his U.S. Senate career, while brief, has been action-packed.
As for Obama’s list of his accomplishments, he’s right on every count. A Washington Post editorial credited Obama for helping to create "the strongest ethics legislation to emerge from Congress yet," and the Coburn-Obama Act created a new Web site, USAspending.gov, which allows anyone to see where federal contracting and grant money is being spent. Moreover, it was an Obama-sponsored amendment that ended Walter Reed's practice of requiring outpatient military personnel to pay for their own meals. And as a state senator in Illinois, Obama championed a bill requiring the police to videotape prisoner interrogations. Although initially controversial, the measure passed the Senate unanimously; even Republicans conceded that the turnaround was largely Obama’s doing.
Finally, while Obama didn’t mention this one, we think it’s worth noting that the Lugar-Obama non-proliferation initiative provided funds for destroying nuclear weapons and for intercepting weapons of mass destruction
In short, Clinton is wrong to suggest that Obama lacks a substantive legislative record.” - factcheck.org
Also…
During the debate on the Fiscal Year 2007 budget, Senator Obama passed an amendment to increase funding for homeless veterans programs by $40 million. These funds would benefit programs that provide food, clothing, mental health and substance abuse counseling, and employment and housing assistance to homeless veterans. As the spouse of an enlisted person, I’m thankful to him for this.
And then there’s my personal favorite. Senator Obama was part of the so called “Gang of 14” who helped to maintain the judicial confirmation process by working in a bipartisan way with Republicans to keep filibusters on the table for controversial appointments. You might roll your eyes, but the next time a Robert Bork comes before the Judiciary Committee you’ll be thanking the Senator from Illinois for all he did.
Man, it looks to me like in fact he does have strong bipartisan record. What’s that about not uniting? I’m pretty confident that the independents and republicans I’ve actually worked with on his campaign in S.C. feel differently.
To your other point it also looks like he does have a proven record. What did they call it again??? Oh that’s right, ACTION PACKED!!! He’s like Batman to your Joker.
I’ll leave it to you to decide whether to debate whether or not Clinton can even win in the general.
And lastly,
http://www.crooksandliars.com/2008/02/14/senior-mccain-adviser-refuses-to-cam
Sunday, February 24, 2008
The Witherfield Dialogues, Pt.2
Witherfield: Dexter, I respect your support of Obama. In fact, I'm glad that more young people are becoming interested in politics and realizing how important it is to participate in the political process. However, I'm sticking with Hillary. I've been following her since I was 8 years old, so Obama will have to take a back seat since he hasn't proven himself to me as yet. As for my comments, I stand by them 100% - Hillary is a workhorse who is willing to fight for issues I care about when the going gets tough. I don't know Obama personally, but as far as politically, Obama has no idea what a real political battle is, Hillary has the scars to prove it and I respect that.
Me:
I don’t recall anyone ever saying she wasn’t a hard worker. I will say that her claim of experience by proximity as first lady is a complete bending of any qualification we’ve previously considered appropriate for the office. Her “I Was There” argument is laughable. Could Laura Bush run too? You didn’t make that argument, but let’s face it. Her campaign theme is an utter sham. http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=15528727
In fact, I know for a fact I didn’t say that she wasn’t a workhorse. My rejoinder was to the empty rhetoric about Obama’s lack of legislative accomplishment and tenacity. Which as you saw was irrefutable. And maybe you’re horse wouldn’t be so scarred if she wasn’t getting beaten down all the time. Can he help it if he get things done without pissing people off. So to your point, all I can think is “so what?”
Witherfield: Furthermore, if we're going to compare Obama and Hillary on their bi-partisan records and their abilities to reach across the aisle, then let's get started. Hillary has worked with the some of the most conservative republican leaders. This list includes Newt Gingrich, with whom she worked, in support of proposals for incremental universal healthcare; former Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist, with whom she co-sponsored the Technology to Enhance Quality Act to modernize medical recordkeeping in hospitals and minimize many costly administrative errors, that although mundane, help keep patients alive; with former House majority leader Tom DeLay (the leader of her husband's impeachment proceedings) on the crisis in foster care; and with Rick Santorum, with whom she co-sponsored the Workplace Religious Freedom Act.
Me: Also, I’m so glad you addressed S.1262, that hard fought TEQ Act. The one which Hillary co-sponsored with Frist. Do you know who else was a co-sponsor???
That’s right. Barack Obama, he and five other democratic senators. Looks like your workhorse couldn’t do all that work on her own. That’s what bipartisanship is for though. And I think America is speaking quite loudly about who it thinks can best bring us all together in a bipartisan way. http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=s109-1262
And lest you still maintain this wild claim that the Republicans will never wish to work in a bipartisan fashion, read this excerpt from Robert Drapers Dead Certain: The Presidency of George W. Bush, "(Ken)Mehlman took Obama our for dinner in 2004, just after the former was designated the head of the Republican National Committee and the latter had achieved overnight-sensation status within the Democratic Party as the newly elected U.S. Senator from Illinois. Obama's inspiring trajectory meant more to Mehlman than his party affiliation...though it was Ken Mehlman's abiding belief that his party, the party of Lincoln, could and must overcome its race-baiting southern strategy past and be the king of party that Barack Obama would want to be a part of."
Wow, they're not just able and willing to work with him, THEY ACTUALLY DEEPLY WANT TO WORK WITH HIM. DEEPLY. THATS THE RNC CHAIRMAN SPEAKING.
Witherfield: Yet what is most impressive, is that Hillary was able to work with this republican leaders even though they have spent years attacking her and her family, some calling her daughter the family dog, others calling her a b*tch etc. Hey, Hillary even worked with Ted Kennedy to introduce the Civil Rights Act of 2008 in the same month that he endorsed Obama. The bottom line is that Hillary has worked across the aisle with even her most virulent detractors and has done so with class, dignity and effectiveness.
Me: Yes, she has endured some hardships as first lady from a ruthless right, but you’re argument that she’s better because they haven’t completely killed her yet is pretty hollow. How about, he’s better because no one on either side wants to kill him at all.
There’s a menace living in Washington everyday and it’s name is TONE. That horrible dissonance will never be elevated as long as we invite another eight years of the same catalysts we had in the 90’s. Your argument only serves to confirm that. And while not part of the larger argument, let me clarify a mistake in your claim. I’m familiar with the Chelsea/Dog insult. It wasn’t Republican Leaders, (at least not outwardly) it was Rush Limbaugh. I don’t think any of us are in danger of a Limbaugh administration or anything else.
Witherfield: Next, I'm happy Obama was doing his job in the Illinois state senate, I don't know the average number of bills sponsored in the Illinois statehouse per state senator, but I'll take you at your word that Obama did a good job while there. However, Hillary has represented her constituents quite well while in the US Senate. From all the government sites that I've viewed, she sponsored just as much if not more bills per Senate session than Obama. But honestly, how many bills either Hillary or Obama sponsor/co-sponsor is not that impressive to me b/c very few of either of their bills have been signed in into law.
Me: Thank you for acknowledging Obama’s effective legislative record and that he gets -ish passed. Ironically, I don’t think you even see that you’ve now conceded that he is a successful senator and also an inspirational transformative figure. You might deny it, but the people aren’t. Those qualities, to me, sound like the combined makings of a great president as opposed to battle scarred and beaten and angry, and so on and so forth.
Witherfield: This fact has nothing to do with them and all to do the current president who has little interest in legislation that doesn't help those not in the richest 1%. This is why it is important for me to vote for someone who I know is willing to fight and twist some lapels LBJ style when the going gets tough. I know Hillary is willing and has battled time and time again; I don't know about Obama...
Me: To this point, all I can say is you’ll see. He can play hardball just as well as the rest of them, only he looks goooood doing it. A very saavy member of the foreign press shared something with me back in December. He said all the world is wants Barack Obama to become President. We're just waiting for America to want Barack Obama to become the next president. And perhaps if Hillary were a little less battle scarred she wouldn't find herself crying at the drop of a hat. Yeah, she's hardened alright. What're the Iranian and N. Korean colloquialisms for "Bring it on"?
Witherfield: As for Obama's work to ensure the increase of funding for homeless veterans; that is commendable and I'm sure that as a spouse of someone serving the military you are very appreciative. So am I and everyone other American. But Obama isn't the only one ensuring better programs and funding for our troops and others who protect our country. Hillary along with Sen. Graham of South Carolina and Rep. John McHugh in the House have been long time supporters of expanding TRICARE (the U.S. military's health care plan) benefit coverage to national guard and reserve members who have also been serving in Iraq and Afghanistan but without receiving any of the health benefits. The efforts of Hillary, Graham and McHugh, were critical in ensuring that the 2007 Defense Bill secured these benefits for our national guard and reservists.
Additionally, Hillary has worked to pass legislation to track the health status of our troops so that conditions like Gulf War Syndrome would no longer be misdiagnosed (this was an issue that she began working on well before she arrived in the Senate, while she was still First Lady). In fact, after Hillary's health care package failed during the 90s (deemed a socialist policy b/c she wanted to provide everyone with universal health care), she checked her pride at the door. She immediately went to work with Orrin Hatch and Ted Kennedy to create the State Children's Health Insurance Program to provide health insurance for uninsured children. To date, the program is still the largest expansion of health insurance coverage for children since Medicaid was created in the 1960s.
Me: I'm sure that’s all 100% accurate. But the point of that was not to imply Hilary couldn’t get things done. It was to confirm to you just one small part of Sen. Obama’s long legislative achievements. Your erroneous “show horse” claims have been invalidated. He’s a hard worker and I don’t think you can deny that by this point.
Witherfield: As for your personal favorite – that being Obama's role in the Gang of 14 which according to your comments helped to maintain the judicial confirmation process in a bi-partisan manner; honestly, I don't have time to roll my eyes because this election is too important for me to do so. However, I will point out that any appreciation you have for your "personal" favorite should be directed exclusively to John McCain because he is the only current presidential candidate who was and is a member of the Gang of 14. The Gang of 14's members include: Susan Collins, Lincoln Chafee, Mike DeWine, Lindsey Graham, John McCain, Olympia Snowe, John Warner, Robert Byrd, Daniel Inouye, Mary Landrieu, Joe Lieberman, Ben Nelson, Mark Pryor and Ken Salazar. Hopefully, you didn't get this bit from factcheck.org as well....
See: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5080836
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gang_of_14
http://themoderatevoice.com/at-tmv/newsweek-blogitics/17887/will-barak-obama-really-appeal-to-centrists/
http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/gop-scours-obama-votes-for-election-ammunition-2008-01-08.html
Me: As for the Gang of 14, I stand corrected. It seems even many pundits in the mainstream media have it wrong. Just as I was listening the Dianne Rehm’s Friday News Roundup podcast last night, they mentioned Obama again as well as part of them. I was wrong, but I’m glad McCain was part of it as well though. Because I’m happy to work for him if she usurps the nomination.
Witherfield: Anyway, I'll be voting for Hillary, if I get the chance, because I've know her to battle and battle hard to provide help to people when everyone else is trying to tear her down. She's harsh and caustic cause she's been through the fire of the republican nastiness time and time again. She's my girl and I'm sticking with her.
Me: I don’t know what makes you think I would try to get you change your vote. My grievance is with all the haters who refuse to give Barack his due credit and instead choose to regurgitate the Kool-Aid residue from the bottom of the pitcher.
He’s inexperienced???
He’s held elected office longer than she has. And in terms of the national stage, he only has as much experience as oh, Lincoln and JFK, and they were pretty good presidents, right?
His judgment has shown itself to be sound. Publicly decrying the war before it started.
Her judgment lead us into a war wherein she hadn’t even read the 2002 NIE report. – The Hill
http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/few-senators-read-iraq-nie-report-2007-06-19.html
Leading to a pesky little think we know as the second Iraq War.
Witherfield: I'm not going to persuade you and you're not going to persuade me. Especially, not with bits and pieces of things copied and pasted from factcheck.org. I took the time tonight to provide you with a detailed response, which I did not "control C" and "control P" because I think honest thoughtful political discourse would do us all some good. But honestly, this is your job, it's not mine, so I don't have time to write a seres of mini-dissertations every time an Obama supporter decries Hillary. But I'm a seasoned political enthusiast, I've been supporting since well before I could vote, when no one my age was talking or interested in politics. So I am appreciative to Obama that he was energized the youth vote, I hope the youth continue to be engaged when the going gets tough!!
Me: How about when the going gets tough, please stop crying on CNN??? And what you call cutting and pasting, the rest of us call citations. It’s what thoughtful people do when they don’t want to be accused of talking out their asses. And the reason resources like Factcheck.org are so useful, is because their unbiased. There’s no political axe to grind that someone can call “partialty” So when someone wants to make a reasoned point gathered from thoughtful research rather than just to make a point, it’s a good place to start. I trust whenever you did a report or paper in school you included what’s the word??? Referemces. Notations. And the like.
And I’m not exactly clear what gives you the impression that (a) you’re over 40 and (b) this is some new first trip into politics for me. I was one of the youngest Young Democrats in Broward County when I joined. I graduated with a degree in political science and went right to work for the Florida House of Representatives as a legislative analyst.. I’ve drafted and researched legislation for members. So the patronizing tone is utterly baseless. But to your point, I have seen Barack inspire the apathetic and apolitical into action. I’ve encountered grown men and women, seniors and the young alike, jarred out of their malaise because they’re touched and inspired by what he says and his record shows he can back it up.
Witherfield: Finally, I do recall that there was a certain JFK who was another president full of hope (which is not intrinsically a bad thing) and excitement and all those other campaign friendly motifs. However, when it came time to get things done, such as the Civil Rights Act of 1965 and the Great Society programs... it was LBJ, the gruff, divisive, not user friendly president, that lapel-twisted some combative southern senators to protect my right to vote, to get an education and to be an equal citizen in this society. Bottom line, I'm looking for another LBJ this election cycle... a JFK part II, I can do without.
Me: While I’ve enjoyed most of your points, this one is utterly unworthy of comment given that JFK was dead at the time. By the way, how do you think we won the space race?
Me:
I don’t recall anyone ever saying she wasn’t a hard worker. I will say that her claim of experience by proximity as first lady is a complete bending of any qualification we’ve previously considered appropriate for the office. Her “I Was There” argument is laughable. Could Laura Bush run too? You didn’t make that argument, but let’s face it. Her campaign theme is an utter sham. http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=15528727
In fact, I know for a fact I didn’t say that she wasn’t a workhorse. My rejoinder was to the empty rhetoric about Obama’s lack of legislative accomplishment and tenacity. Which as you saw was irrefutable. And maybe you’re horse wouldn’t be so scarred if she wasn’t getting beaten down all the time. Can he help it if he get things done without pissing people off. So to your point, all I can think is “so what?”
Witherfield: Furthermore, if we're going to compare Obama and Hillary on their bi-partisan records and their abilities to reach across the aisle, then let's get started. Hillary has worked with the some of the most conservative republican leaders. This list includes Newt Gingrich, with whom she worked, in support of proposals for incremental universal healthcare; former Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist, with whom she co-sponsored the Technology to Enhance Quality Act to modernize medical recordkeeping in hospitals and minimize many costly administrative errors, that although mundane, help keep patients alive; with former House majority leader Tom DeLay (the leader of her husband's impeachment proceedings) on the crisis in foster care; and with Rick Santorum, with whom she co-sponsored the Workplace Religious Freedom Act.
Me: Also, I’m so glad you addressed S.1262, that hard fought TEQ Act. The one which Hillary co-sponsored with Frist. Do you know who else was a co-sponsor???
That’s right. Barack Obama, he and five other democratic senators. Looks like your workhorse couldn’t do all that work on her own. That’s what bipartisanship is for though. And I think America is speaking quite loudly about who it thinks can best bring us all together in a bipartisan way. http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=s109-1262
And lest you still maintain this wild claim that the Republicans will never wish to work in a bipartisan fashion, read this excerpt from Robert Drapers Dead Certain: The Presidency of George W. Bush, "(Ken)Mehlman took Obama our for dinner in 2004, just after the former was designated the head of the Republican National Committee and the latter had achieved overnight-sensation status within the Democratic Party as the newly elected U.S. Senator from Illinois. Obama's inspiring trajectory meant more to Mehlman than his party affiliation...though it was Ken Mehlman's abiding belief that his party, the party of Lincoln, could and must overcome its race-baiting southern strategy past and be the king of party that Barack Obama would want to be a part of."
Wow, they're not just able and willing to work with him, THEY ACTUALLY DEEPLY WANT TO WORK WITH HIM. DEEPLY. THATS THE RNC CHAIRMAN SPEAKING.
Witherfield: Yet what is most impressive, is that Hillary was able to work with this republican leaders even though they have spent years attacking her and her family, some calling her daughter the family dog, others calling her a b*tch etc. Hey, Hillary even worked with Ted Kennedy to introduce the Civil Rights Act of 2008 in the same month that he endorsed Obama. The bottom line is that Hillary has worked across the aisle with even her most virulent detractors and has done so with class, dignity and effectiveness.
Me: Yes, she has endured some hardships as first lady from a ruthless right, but you’re argument that she’s better because they haven’t completely killed her yet is pretty hollow. How about, he’s better because no one on either side wants to kill him at all.
There’s a menace living in Washington everyday and it’s name is TONE. That horrible dissonance will never be elevated as long as we invite another eight years of the same catalysts we had in the 90’s. Your argument only serves to confirm that. And while not part of the larger argument, let me clarify a mistake in your claim. I’m familiar with the Chelsea/Dog insult. It wasn’t Republican Leaders, (at least not outwardly) it was Rush Limbaugh. I don’t think any of us are in danger of a Limbaugh administration or anything else.
Witherfield: Next, I'm happy Obama was doing his job in the Illinois state senate, I don't know the average number of bills sponsored in the Illinois statehouse per state senator, but I'll take you at your word that Obama did a good job while there. However, Hillary has represented her constituents quite well while in the US Senate. From all the government sites that I've viewed, she sponsored just as much if not more bills per Senate session than Obama. But honestly, how many bills either Hillary or Obama sponsor/co-sponsor is not that impressive to me b/c very few of either of their bills have been signed in into law.
Me: Thank you for acknowledging Obama’s effective legislative record and that he gets -ish passed. Ironically, I don’t think you even see that you’ve now conceded that he is a successful senator and also an inspirational transformative figure. You might deny it, but the people aren’t. Those qualities, to me, sound like the combined makings of a great president as opposed to battle scarred and beaten and angry, and so on and so forth.
Witherfield: This fact has nothing to do with them and all to do the current president who has little interest in legislation that doesn't help those not in the richest 1%. This is why it is important for me to vote for someone who I know is willing to fight and twist some lapels LBJ style when the going gets tough. I know Hillary is willing and has battled time and time again; I don't know about Obama...
Me: To this point, all I can say is you’ll see. He can play hardball just as well as the rest of them, only he looks goooood doing it. A very saavy member of the foreign press shared something with me back in December. He said all the world is wants Barack Obama to become President. We're just waiting for America to want Barack Obama to become the next president. And perhaps if Hillary were a little less battle scarred she wouldn't find herself crying at the drop of a hat. Yeah, she's hardened alright. What're the Iranian and N. Korean colloquialisms for "Bring it on"?
Witherfield: As for Obama's work to ensure the increase of funding for homeless veterans; that is commendable and I'm sure that as a spouse of someone serving the military you are very appreciative. So am I and everyone other American. But Obama isn't the only one ensuring better programs and funding for our troops and others who protect our country. Hillary along with Sen. Graham of South Carolina and Rep. John McHugh in the House have been long time supporters of expanding TRICARE (the U.S. military's health care plan) benefit coverage to national guard and reserve members who have also been serving in Iraq and Afghanistan but without receiving any of the health benefits. The efforts of Hillary, Graham and McHugh, were critical in ensuring that the 2007 Defense Bill secured these benefits for our national guard and reservists.
Additionally, Hillary has worked to pass legislation to track the health status of our troops so that conditions like Gulf War Syndrome would no longer be misdiagnosed (this was an issue that she began working on well before she arrived in the Senate, while she was still First Lady). In fact, after Hillary's health care package failed during the 90s (deemed a socialist policy b/c she wanted to provide everyone with universal health care), she checked her pride at the door. She immediately went to work with Orrin Hatch and Ted Kennedy to create the State Children's Health Insurance Program to provide health insurance for uninsured children. To date, the program is still the largest expansion of health insurance coverage for children since Medicaid was created in the 1960s.
Me: I'm sure that’s all 100% accurate. But the point of that was not to imply Hilary couldn’t get things done. It was to confirm to you just one small part of Sen. Obama’s long legislative achievements. Your erroneous “show horse” claims have been invalidated. He’s a hard worker and I don’t think you can deny that by this point.
Witherfield: As for your personal favorite – that being Obama's role in the Gang of 14 which according to your comments helped to maintain the judicial confirmation process in a bi-partisan manner; honestly, I don't have time to roll my eyes because this election is too important for me to do so. However, I will point out that any appreciation you have for your "personal" favorite should be directed exclusively to John McCain because he is the only current presidential candidate who was and is a member of the Gang of 14. The Gang of 14's members include: Susan Collins, Lincoln Chafee, Mike DeWine, Lindsey Graham, John McCain, Olympia Snowe, John Warner, Robert Byrd, Daniel Inouye, Mary Landrieu, Joe Lieberman, Ben Nelson, Mark Pryor and Ken Salazar. Hopefully, you didn't get this bit from factcheck.org as well....
See: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5080836
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gang_of_14
http://themoderatevoice.com/at-tmv/newsweek-blogitics/17887/will-barak-obama-really-appeal-to-centrists/
http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/gop-scours-obama-votes-for-election-ammunition-2008-01-08.html
Me: As for the Gang of 14, I stand corrected. It seems even many pundits in the mainstream media have it wrong. Just as I was listening the Dianne Rehm’s Friday News Roundup podcast last night, they mentioned Obama again as well as part of them. I was wrong, but I’m glad McCain was part of it as well though. Because I’m happy to work for him if she usurps the nomination.
Witherfield: Anyway, I'll be voting for Hillary, if I get the chance, because I've know her to battle and battle hard to provide help to people when everyone else is trying to tear her down. She's harsh and caustic cause she's been through the fire of the republican nastiness time and time again. She's my girl and I'm sticking with her.
Me: I don’t know what makes you think I would try to get you change your vote. My grievance is with all the haters who refuse to give Barack his due credit and instead choose to regurgitate the Kool-Aid residue from the bottom of the pitcher.
He’s inexperienced???
He’s held elected office longer than she has. And in terms of the national stage, he only has as much experience as oh, Lincoln and JFK, and they were pretty good presidents, right?
His judgment has shown itself to be sound. Publicly decrying the war before it started.
Her judgment lead us into a war wherein she hadn’t even read the 2002 NIE report. – The Hill
http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/few-senators-read-iraq-nie-report-2007-06-19.html
Leading to a pesky little think we know as the second Iraq War.
Witherfield: I'm not going to persuade you and you're not going to persuade me. Especially, not with bits and pieces of things copied and pasted from factcheck.org. I took the time tonight to provide you with a detailed response, which I did not "control C" and "control P" because I think honest thoughtful political discourse would do us all some good. But honestly, this is your job, it's not mine, so I don't have time to write a seres of mini-dissertations every time an Obama supporter decries Hillary. But I'm a seasoned political enthusiast, I've been supporting since well before I could vote, when no one my age was talking or interested in politics. So I am appreciative to Obama that he was energized the youth vote, I hope the youth continue to be engaged when the going gets tough!!
Me: How about when the going gets tough, please stop crying on CNN??? And what you call cutting and pasting, the rest of us call citations. It’s what thoughtful people do when they don’t want to be accused of talking out their asses. And the reason resources like Factcheck.org are so useful, is because their unbiased. There’s no political axe to grind that someone can call “partialty” So when someone wants to make a reasoned point gathered from thoughtful research rather than just to make a point, it’s a good place to start. I trust whenever you did a report or paper in school you included what’s the word??? Referemces. Notations. And the like.
And I’m not exactly clear what gives you the impression that (a) you’re over 40 and (b) this is some new first trip into politics for me. I was one of the youngest Young Democrats in Broward County when I joined. I graduated with a degree in political science and went right to work for the Florida House of Representatives as a legislative analyst.. I’ve drafted and researched legislation for members. So the patronizing tone is utterly baseless. But to your point, I have seen Barack inspire the apathetic and apolitical into action. I’ve encountered grown men and women, seniors and the young alike, jarred out of their malaise because they’re touched and inspired by what he says and his record shows he can back it up.
Witherfield: Finally, I do recall that there was a certain JFK who was another president full of hope (which is not intrinsically a bad thing) and excitement and all those other campaign friendly motifs. However, when it came time to get things done, such as the Civil Rights Act of 1965 and the Great Society programs... it was LBJ, the gruff, divisive, not user friendly president, that lapel-twisted some combative southern senators to protect my right to vote, to get an education and to be an equal citizen in this society. Bottom line, I'm looking for another LBJ this election cycle... a JFK part II, I can do without.
Me: While I’ve enjoyed most of your points, this one is utterly unworthy of comment given that JFK was dead at the time. By the way, how do you think we won the space race?
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